Personal EPIRB's

[Lt. Sniper]

I have been in a bushwalking club for a few months now and I know that nearly all the leaders for walks carry EPIRB's. I know not a lot of them carry GPS's and I have made a few people open their eyes to GPS's with my Meridian Platinum.<br><br>

I can hire a GME EPIRB from the club for nothing (as a member) and it gives you that extra level of security for when you are on walks especially with small groups (6-8 people). I have been thinking that it might be wise for me to consider a personal EPIRB of my own for safety sake as I go on a fair few walks by myself now.<br><br>

I know there are a few SES members here so what are you thought on this? Do you think it’s a worthwhile investment? I don’t doubt the ‘$300 VS a human life’ thing, but would it be advised to get one?<br><br>

I obviously donÂ’t plan to run straight out and buy one because I want to see what develops in the new personal 406mHz EPIRB arena.

[Aushiker]

I have been in a bushwalking club for a few months now and I know that nearly all the leaders for walks carry EPIRB's. I know not a lot of them carry GPS's and I have made a few people open their eyes to GPS's with my Meridian Platinum.<br><br>

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Hi
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I carry a 121.5 mhz unit which I got from Johnny Appleseed for well under $300 if IIRC. I would not walk without it, particulary as I often solo. I brought it with the intention of replacing it just as it comes to the end of its battery life with a 406 mhz which also concides with the planned decommissioning of the 121.5 mhz sats. Good oil on the subject at http://beacons.amsa.gov.au/ .
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GME have a 406 mhz personal model out which weighs around 500 grams (to heavy in my book). Details at http://www.gme.net.au/epirb/mt400.php .
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Also, if you haven't already read it, take a look at http://www.mountainsafety.org.nz/assets ... _there.pdf . They are strong on EPIRBs, mountain radios etc. While of course this is more extreme than geocaching, it does reinforce the arguments for some sort of reliable communication device.
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I always also carry a CDMA phone as a supplement. Helps if voice contact or text contact can be made.
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Andrew

[Geof]

Got a letter from the board of marine saftey (or somthing like that) the other day about these. By what they say you would be better to just get a 406Mhz one and be done with it. There was also some speak about a 406 unit with a in built GPSr thus cuting down the search time massivly (transmits your coords to the satalite).

You watch the northern neighbours will start using 406Mhz for chit chat next

[Aushiker]

Got a letter from the board of marine saftey (or somthing like that) the other day about these. By what they say you would be better to just get a 406Mhz one and be done with it.

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That is true, but if you are bushwalking (as opposed to driving the 4WD) weight becomes a big issue. At present, the GME "personal" 406 weighs in at 535 grams. Not sure of the price at present, but awhile back 406 units where around $1500 compared to a 121.5 under $300 and around 200 grams in weight.
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Andrew

[Derringer]

I carry a KTi Mini Sat Alert EPIRB on all my solo walks.
It weighs 250gms and operates on the 121.5/243Mhz bands.

I consider it an essential piece of equipment for remote country walking and its weight is not an issue for me.

I have replace the battery once (5yr life) and it cost $120 to do so.
If you buy one now it will only need replacing when the new EPIRBS come into effect.
I believe the new system will need you to register as a user so when a signal is heard it will identify who is making the distress call.

Hopefully the new units will decrease in weight and cost as the changeover date draws nearer

Kevin

[Lt. Sniper]

An intresting article from a US site:
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/gm/nmc/alert/fish/index.htm

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/gm/moa/docs/si0196.htm
Look at the location accuracy

http://www.uscg.mil/d17/allnews/news02/27502.htm
They used a C-130 at one stage and it took a FCC guy with 'special equipment' to find it in the end

[Lucanos]

Having had a look at one of the resources mentioned above (http://www.uscg.mil/hq/gm/moa/docs/si0196.htm), and the details regarding the accuracy of the two EPIRB types currently available you have to wonder whether the added weight and cost is really worth it...<br>
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Don't get me wrong - I do understand that there are instances where you would need to call for help, in which case these EPIRBs would at least get the search teams looking in the right area, but considering that the accuracy of one of the older 121.5MHz units is 20km you'd almost be better off with smoke signals!<br>
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Just as a matter of interest, I checked out Whereis.com.au to try and put that 20km thing in perspective.<br>
Centred on Hyde Park, a map with an approximate range of 20km was shown as this.<br>
The 20km range was close to the distance between Homebush Bay and Hyde Park! Not exactly a small area to search.<br>
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Maybe a satellite phone would be a better investment. Sure they're expensive, and heavy, but so are some of these EPIRBs. Plus you have the added advantage of using it in conjunction with your GPS, reducing the search area from a 20km radius (and 1260 square kilometers) down to maybe a 10m radius (and 0.000314159265 square kilometers).<br>
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Plus, if you were in a bad way, you could possibly get medical advice over the phone, increasing the chances of getting people out alive...

[Team Geo-Nads]

They can be useful but have to be used in the right situation. It 's a costly exercise if its not really a life and death situation. Some body once told (I don't know how true it is) that people can be held responsible for the cost of the rescue

[swampgecko]

You can be fined for the activation of a EPRIB or similar device unless in an emergency. The fine was $5000 last time I checked.

The workshop that I manage is a venue for for servicing one particular type of EPRIB. No I cannot test or repair personal units. I had to write instructions on the how and when to test them once fitted to aircraft. Basicly it comes down to a specific time of day and transmission length.

Time for testing is from on the hour to five minutes past the hour. Duration of no more than 5seconds. That is from AUSSAR and various flight planning publications that I have access to. We have to ring AUSSAR and advise them of the transmissiom before hand, supply a contact name and number and the duration and frequency of transmission. Luckily for us the the test cycle for our particular systems only transmitts for .3 of a second, enough time to hear it in the headset.


There was a fisherman in Sydney that accidently activated his EPRIB whilst washing his boat, he was fined, and it didn't take long to track him as he was directly under a flightpath and the incoming/outbound aircraft were picking it up.

[Lt. Sniper]

I had thought about a satellite phone and have found a few companies that have prepaid Motorola phone. The cost it pretty high for a stand by unit, its only worthwhile if you live in the bush because you get a huge government subsidy.

Personally I would prefer a sat phone but I know itÂ’s just not viable,
EPIRB VS MotorolaÂ’s 9505 (Iridium sat network)
An EPIRB's battery lasts for 10 years but itÂ’s suggested to be changed at 5 years. 48 hour transmitting time.
The sat phone has a 2.4 hour talk time, 24 hours stand by. Turning it off makes it like an EPIRB for use when you need it, problem is its battery isnÂ’t designed for long life standby. CouldnÂ’t find out its battery type, most likely Lithium Ion

An EPIRB works in the rain where a sat phone really struggles (signal wise)
An EPIRB is waterproof, Motorola hasnÂ’t got a waterproof sat phone.
Depending on your EPIRB it can float, MotorolaÂ’s 9505 doesnÂ’t.
You can use an EPIRB by its self, with a sat phone you need a GPS to work out where you are.

A mobile costs more but for something you want to use to possible save your life, you donÂ’t put a price on it.
An average personal EPIRB weighs around the same as a sat phone.

If you run into trouble an EPIRB is a self-contained rescue package.


As for as location finding, that page was an quite old and the Australian SAR and equipment setup states position down to 5 kms. When they get close to you I think they use the 121.5 to home into you. (406mHz system)

[Aushiker]

As for as location finding, that page was an quite old and the Australian SAR and equipment setup states position down to 5 kms. When they get close to you I think they use the 121.5 to home into you. (406mHz system)

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That is correct, even with the 406 mhz systems, it still uses the 121.5 mhz frequency for close proximity location. The Australian Maritime Safety Authority has some informative information at http://beacons.amsa.gov.au/ The link I provided earlier in this thread. A good comparision of the two options can be found at http://beacons.amsa.gov.au/What_is/406_vs_121.asp
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I think that this is a very important topic which should be researched/commented on in an informed manner. The link earlier to the New Zealand Mountain Rescue article highlights the importance of such devices.
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As to the accuracy of the 121.5 mhz beacons, note this quote from the AMSA:
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"Accurate <b>to 20 km</b> More information is needed to determine the real location. This usually means at least 2 satellite passes &/or independent intelligence is required to determine a location and this takes more time."
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As I understand the 121.5 mhz gives a wide search area initially, however, with the use of search aircraft/helicopters, the beacon's locality can be narrowed down once in the search area.
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There is no doubt the the 406 mhz beacon is far superior, but even still the 121.5 mhz is cheap insurance. Just read the NZ article to see the potential cost of not carrying one (along with stupdity, but still the EPIRB could have resulted in a possible rescue) ... death in one instance!
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Andrew

[Aushiker]

From AMSA:
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"Distress Beacons are only for use in <b>life-threatening situations</b>. In the event of an emergency, you should first signal other people in your area using radios or other methods of attracting attention.<b> Mobile phones can be used too, but don't rely on them. The phones may be out of range, have limited battery power, or become water-damaged</b>."
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Another argument here against relying on phones. Good support tools but not something to rely on IMO.
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Andrew